Save Roanoke

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Save EMS on May 28, 2009 at 12:55pm

I agree with many things you have said. From my stand point Roanoke has worked for 17 years, why would it not work from here on? Certainly there needs to be more activity not only in Roanoke but around the nation. The way I look at it is we can sit back and talk about it while the memorial is built in Colorado or we can do something to at least keep it where we know it has been successful for 17 years. Ultimately none of us want the memories of our fallen brothers and sisters to be forgotten and I, as well as many others, fear that this will happen in Colorado Springs.

Could things be better in Roanoke, certainly, without a doubt. Is there a better place as far as location? probably. To me, Roanoke is the most logical because of the history.

Skip Kirkwood said:

I think that's overly simplistic. The question is not, IMHO, "Roanoke or not." Like I said, Roanoke is less than optimal too.

A more broad discussion needs to be held. What are we trying to accomplish? Where is the best place to do that? Is the desire to make it easy for people to attend? Should there be events besides a church service?

We're a large community - it needs to be a large, inclusive discussion and process.

Skip

Save EMS said:

Are you for keeping a permanent memorial in Roanoke or against it? That is all this comes down to. If you are for it then I welcome you to the battle and look forward to the energy you bring to the debate. If you are against it I will respect your opinion as our efforts move forward.

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Permalink Reply by Save EMS on May 29, 2009 at 9:26pm

Doug, we are sooo on the same page here. This entire move to Colorado will, in my opinion, be the end of the memorial. I also agree and at one time was a big supporter of DC. The two things that made me lean more toward Roanoke is the history of EMS in Roanoke and the fact that the memorial is less likely to get lost in that city. My family and I visit DC often and it seems that we always have memorials on our list to visit if we get time. There are so many to see that it is impossible to get around to all of them. How many memorials are in Roanoke? Also in Roanoke there is the potential to have the museum restarted as part of the memorial and history of the industry.

As far as the money goes, I think this is a prime example of how big business thinks they can push the little guy around and the little guy will not fight back. Myself, I’m not afraid of big business. As long as I do what I think is right and stand up for what I believe in then I can sleep at night. There is a connection and you are on the right track. If you look a little bit you will see what I, and many others, have seen. Check out the “Save Roanoke” page on Facebook. I have posted a lot of information on there.


Doug Martin said:

I have to throw in with those that advocate DC. Let's face it, no one is going to fly to Roanoke or Colorado Springs just to see the EMS Memorial (except on induction day). Put it in DC and it's a place that people will put on their list of places to see. And those with almost no knowledge of EMS will stumble upon it.

I've ridden into Roanoke for the past 4 years with the bike ride. Each year I am stunned the the bikers and support make up the majority of people in that church that aren't specifically connected with an honoree.

The NEMSMS has been in existence for 17 years and almost nobody in EMS knows about it. Now they want to move it and separating it from EMS Week & the Memorial Day weekend. This is just my opinion, but this move will result in the NEMSMS fading into the background and becoming completely insignificant. Nothing against Co. Springs but the decision to move there smacks of money changing hands.

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Permalink Reply by Amy Corcoran on May 31, 2009 at 7:38pm

The one question I forgot to askin roanoke is WHY? they moved to CO? Was there a legitimate reason im really curious. I am going to research the memorial site and see if I find anything in the mean time.


Amy

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Permalink Reply by Save EMS on May 31, 2009 at 7:48pm

Amy, good luck finding the true answer. Many people have asked this very question and a lot of speculation can be made as to the reason. Email me at saveems@aol.com and I will share my thought process with you. Also be sure to check out the page I have on facebook. Search for save Roanoke. I have posted a lot of information under the discussion tab and still have more to go!

Amy Corcoran said:

The one question I forgot to askin roanoke is WHY? they moved to CO? Was there a legitimate reason im really curious. I am going to research the memorial site and see if I find anything in the mean time.


Amy

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Permalink Reply by Kevin Agard on June 1, 2009 at 4:24pm

Save EMS said:

In the business world everything is political, this is evident by the ties one private industry has with one memorial board member. The members of the memorial may not be willing to answer our questions but I bet they will reply to the Attorney Generals office. Like I said, it may not do any good but I'm at least going to fight for it.

Mr. Laws,

I have seen you reference your supposed difficulty in getting a reply from us but to the best of my knowledge, you have attempted to contact us exactly once, at 20:55 on Sunday evening. I have searched my records and can find no other inquiries from you. In response to that email, a 3 page letter responding to all of your questions and all but one of your comments was sent to you at 15:41 today. In other words, by the close of business the next business day.

I can only suggest sir, that if you would like questions answered, you have to actually ask them first.

Kevin M. Agard
Director/PIO
National EMS Memorial Service

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Permalink Reply by Save EMS on June 1, 2009 at 4:55pm

Mr. Agard, perhaps you should also forward that to Mr. Dillard. I emailed him on 5/26 at 1:20 pm. His reply to me was he wanted to know my name before he answered. It was my oversight that I had not included it in my email but it was sent back to him at 6:11 that evening. To this date he never responded. I imagined as President of the organization he would certainly be the one to respond to a few questions but it seems as if I was mistaken.

Given that information it would appear that I was addressing the wrong individual. So yes, the questions are being asked you are just the only one willing to answer them.

Kevin Agard said:

Save EMS said:

In the business world everything is political, this is evident by the ties one private industry has with one memorial board member. The members of the memorial may not be willing to answer our questions but I bet they will reply to the Attorney Generals office. Like I said, it may not do any good but I'm at least going to fight for it.

Mr. Laws,

I have seen you reference your supposed difficulty in getting a reply from us but to the best of my knowledge, you have attempted to contact us exactly once, at 20:55 on Sunday evening. I have searched my records and can find no other inquiries from you. In response to that email, a 3 page letter responding to all of your questions and all but one of your comments was sent to you at 15:41 today. In other words, by the close of business the next business day.

I can only suggest sir, that if you would like questions answered, you have to actually ask them first.

Kevin M. Agard
Director/PIO
National EMS Memorial Service

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Permalink Reply by Kevin Agard on June 1, 2009 at 5:08pm

Mr Laws (If that is indeed your real name),

After completely reading your pages here and on Facebook, it has become obvious to me that when you do not actually know something, you will make something up that fits your world view rather than research the truth.

Please allow me to correct some factual errors:

1. Roanoke is NOT the birthplace of EMS. It was the home of Julian Stanley Wise and the location of the founding (by Mr. Wise) of the first volunteer rescue squad in the United States in 1928. If you want to identify the origins of EMS in the United States, you'd have to go back the the horse drawn ambulances operated by hospital around the county in the 1880s. This takes nothing away from Mr. Wise. As a former member of the Julian Stanley Wise Foundation's board, I am fully aware of his accomplishments and their import. But it remains that your assertion is factually incorrect.

2. The choice of Colorado Springs was originally announce at the 2008 Memorial Service. That would be last year, not last weekend.

3. As stated in my letter to you, The Memorial Service was never held in conjunction with EMS Week. It was held Memorial Day Weekend. It was simply a nice happenstance that the two coincided 3/4 of the time.

4. Our change of date had nothing whatsoever to do with Colorado Springs. They couldn't care less when during the year we held it. And while the change of date might have been mentioned during this year's Service, nobody said anything about that change having to do with COS. Anyone who wishes to do so may verify this for themselves as the recording of the service will be available in a few weeks on DVD.

Anyone wishing information on the National EMS Memorial Service may contact us at info (at) nemsms.org. Contrary to Mr, Laws contentions, we actually do answer our email.

Kevin M. Agard
Director/PIO
National EMS Memorial Service.

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Permalink Reply by Save EMS on June 1, 2009 at 5:56pm

Mr. Agard,

Good attempt at trying to confuse the issue. The first chartered rescue squad in the nation was in Roanoke Virigina. Certainly I am aware of other entities that made an attempt of providing pre-hospital care but the fact remains that Roanoke was the first one to actually organize and charter themselves.

Perhaps the board members should all get their stories straight. The reason I was given by a board member, that I am regretfully sorry I can not remember their name, for the date change is it was not a good time for the city of Colorado Springs as they had other events going on that weekend. I was also told by many board members that did not vote for or against moving to Colorado Springs. Out of all the board members how many actually voted for this move?

The fact remains that the United States Congress and United States Senate has officially declared Roanoke Virginia as the birthplace of EMS AND the home of the National EMS Memorial Service. An attempt was made to have that joint resolution overturned last year but died in a House sub-committee. Again, good try.

I will agree with you on one point, you will answer your email. So far no one else on the board has.


Kevin Agard said:

Mr Laws (If that is indeed your real name),

After completely reading your pages here and on Facebook, it has become obvious to me that when you do not actually know something, you will make something up that fits your world view rather than research the truth.

Please allow me to correct some factual errors:

1. Roanoke is NOT the birthplace of EMS. It was the home of Julian Stanley Wise and the location of the founding (by Mr. Wise) of the first volunteer rescue squad in the United States in 1928. If you want to identify the origins of EMS in the United States, you'd have to go back the the horse drawn ambulances operated by hospital around the county in the 1880s. This takes nothing away from Mr. Wise. As a former member of the Julian Stanley Wise Foundation's board, I am fully aware of his accomplishments and their import. But it remains that your assertion is factually incorrect.

2. The choice of Colorado Springs was originally announce at the 2008 Memorial Service. That would be last year, not last weekend.

3. As stated in my letter to you, The Memorial Service was never held in conjunction with EMS Week. It was held Memorial Day Weekend. It was simply a nice happenstance that the two coincided 3/4 of the time.

4. Our change of date had nothing whatsoever to do with Colorado Springs. They couldn't care less when during the year we held it. And while the change of date might have been mentioned during this year's Service, nobody said anything about that change having to do with COS. Anyone who wishes to do so may verify this for themselves as the recording of the service will be available in a few weeks on DVD.

Anyone wishing information on the National EMS Memorial Service may contact us at info (at) nemsms.org. Contrary to Mr, Laws contentions, we actually do answer our email.

Kevin M. Agard
Director/PIO
National EMS Memorial Service.

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Permalink Reply by Ed Parry on June 3, 2009 at 12:49pm

All,

I think at this juncture it might help if everyone took a deep breath and toned down the rhetoric just a bit. I agree that posting anonymously, while somewhat annoying, does allow a certain amount of unwarranted freedom, but at this point it's just confusing the issue. How about we all just follow the advice of Dr. David Nelson and "assume (and act with) positive intentions."

I agree with Skip's original posting. As a Coloradan, I don't see the purpose of placing the Memorial in the Springs. It's not a premier geographical position in anyone's (well, anyone other than NORAD's) book. Their airport has few direct flights, and driving there is a pain for everyone. They have no major media outlets, and the Memorial date will always play second fiddle to the Air Force Academy graduation and football schedule, US Olympic Center events, the IAFF schedule, the Professional Rodeo schedule, the State Fair, which overflows into the Springs, and whatever other events occur as the result of having a major US Army base in your backyard.

Having participated in the National EMS Memorial Bike Ride for 3 years now, I definitely see the advantage of having a Memorial on the East Coast, preferably in the DC area. Lets face it; DC is the center of gravity of the political and media world. When it was announced that the Memorial would be in the Springs, the story was mentioned in the Denver and Springs papers, and I believe it was a 20 second TV news story seen by maybe 150,000 people in Colorado. When one of the Bike Ride's support vehicles was broken into into at a hotel in Annapolis MD last year, it was covered extensively in the DC media, on every local TV and radio news channel. This story was seen by millions of people, and resulted in donations covering more than the cost of the stolen equipment, not to mention the good will that the story of the group, and the publicity regarding EMS LODD deaths, engendered. This year, the story was covered on CNN. We, as an industry, will never be able to develop this publicity in Colorado, and let's face it, that's what this is largely about. I believe Jenifer Frennete, President of the Ride, can provide information regarding how succesful Ride participants (in spandex, nonetheless!) were at directly lobbying their congress members for support of the PSOB bill while we were in DC. These very positive events will never occur with this memorial held in Colorado Springs.

I don't believe anyone involved in the decision to move the Memorial to the Springs acted with anything but the very best of intentions. It would be ridiculous to think this group of volunteers acted otherwise. I'm disheartened to see others making this assumption. I do think, however, that the decision would have benefitted from a more open public discussion. I hope this discussion continues, and all involved will remember to conduct it respectfully.

I will now crawl back into my cave,
Ed Parry
Summit County Ambulance Service
President, North Central EMS Cooperative
Frisco, CO

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Permalink Reply by anna m mills on June 5, 2009 at 9:06am

i am in favor of roanoke. i have been involved in ems for 23 years and counting, i would like to think that god forbid something would happen to me i would be remembered at roanoke like those that inspired me. tell me what you would like and ill try and help!!!!
anna

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Permalink Reply by Tamie on June 5, 2009 at 10:29am

I have been following this discussion since it's inception. I was a first year rider on the National EMS Memorial Bike Ride this year (2009)-I am Proud and Humbled to call myself a Muddy Angel. I was in DC the day of the meetings between some of the Muddy Angels and their congress/state representatives.

I was all set to comment on the previous postings/discussions when I read Ed's post.
I absolutely 100% agree with what Ed has to say. So in the interest of not typing a whole new comment saying the same things (cuz I have been known to write a 2 page SOAP report lol) I will just say that I concur with what Ed posted.

Not everyone is going to agree with what other's have to say-nor do I think that this will be resolved here on EMS United. Although the discussions are great and a great way to toss ideas around and bounce them off of each other. But I do agree that we-ALL of us- need to do our part in just 2 ways:

1-Making sure that there CONTINUES to be a memorial so that all who went before us and lost their lives while trying to save others are forever remembered and not forgotten. THAT is the essential theme and should continue to be the essential theme.....not just where the Memorial is...but the reason behind the memorial itself. The individuals who lost their lives.
AND
2-That the AWARENESS of what we are doing continues to grow and expand throughout not just the nation-but internationally as well (we had 2 Ireland riders and 1 rider from Canada this year).

I have been in the EMS field for 12 yrs (not counting my years in the Army as a CLS) and February 2009 was the FIRST I had ever heard of there being a National Memorial as well as an Annual EMS Memorial Bike Ride. Now granted I live on the West Coast and most of the riders are from the other side of the country-but I still couldn't believe that I knew nothing about this. Matter of fact of about 400 EMS personnel attending an EMS Conference in WA state, only about 3 raised their hands when Steve Berry asked how many of us knew that we had a Memorial-and the same three raised their hands when he asked how many of us knew about the Bike Ride. Right then and there I decided to do the ride.

Which brings me to my next point- I strongly think that every one of us needs to advocate on our behalf (EMS) the issues, challenges and safety concerns that we face on a daily basis. If we don't become pro-active instead of reactive we are going to continue to lose more EMS brothers and sisters.

And while I have been fortunate to not have had anyone close to me in the EMS community lose their lives, by the end of the Bike Ride I felt like I had lost 91 of my own personal family members. The week of memorials every day (sometimes 2-3) and reading the bios of all 91 inductees more than once a day, seeing their pictures, listening to their names read once, sometimes twice and three times a day, and meeting the family members in Roanoke and then going to the final Memorial in Roanoke really hit home in more ways than one. That could be me or someone I work with.

So what I really am trying to say is to not lose focus on what we are trying to do, and instead work together to find a solution. No finger pointing, he said she said, etc etc.

Ed Parry said:

All,

I think at this juncture it might help if everyone took a deep breath and toned down the rhetoric just a bit. I agree that posting anonymously, while somewhat annoying, does allow a certain amount of unwarranted freedom, but at this point it's just confusing the issue. How about we all just follow the advice of Dr. David Nelson and "assume (and act with) positive intentions."

I agree with Skip's original posting. As a Coloradan, I don't see the purpose of placing the Memorial in the Springs. It's not a premier geographical position in anyone's (well, anyone other than NORAD's) book. Their airport has few direct flights, and driving there is a pain for everyone. They have no major media outlets, and the Memorial date will always play second fiddle to the Air Force Academy graduation and football schedule, US Olympic Center events, the IAFF schedule, the Professional Rodeo schedule, the State Fair, which overflows into the Springs, and whatever other events occur as the result of having a major US Army base in your backyard.

Having participated in the National EMS Memorial Bike Ride for 3 years now, I definitely see the advantage of having a Memorial on the East Coast, preferably in the DC area. Lets face it; DC is the center of gravity of the political and media world. When it was announced that the Memorial would be in the Springs, the story was mentioned in the Denver and Springs papers, and I believe it was a 20 second TV news story seen by maybe 150,000 people in Colorado. When one of the Bike Ride's support vehicles was broken into into at a hotel in Annapolis MD last year, it was covered extensively in the DC media, on every local TV and radio news channel. This story was seen by millions of people, and resulted in donations covering more than the cost of the stolen equipment, not to mention the good will that the story of the group, and the publicity regarding EMS LODD deaths, engendered. This year, the story was covered on CNN. We, as an industry, will never be able to develop this publicity in Colorado, and let's face it, that's what this is largely about. I believe Jenifer Frennete, President of the Ride, can provide information regarding how succesful Ride participants (in spandex, nonetheless!) were at directly lobbying their congress members for support of the PSOB bill while we were in DC. These very positive events will never occur with this memorial held in Colorado Springs.

I don't believe anyone involved in the decision to move the Memorial to the Springs acted with anything but the very best of intentions. It would be ridiculous to think this group of volunteers acted otherwise. I'm disheartened to see others making this assumption. I do think, however, that the decision would have benefitted from a more open public discussion. I hope this discussion continues, and all involved will remember to conduct it respectfully.

I will now crawl back into my cave,
Ed Parry
Summit County Ambulance Service
President, North Central EMS Cooperative
Frisco, CO

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Permalink Reply by Skip Kirkwood on June 7, 2009 at 8:39am

Stay out of your cave, and keep on talking, Ed. Thank you for your post - 100% on target.

Skip

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