Certification or Licence

We need to Lic as Medic to gain a better foothold and respect in the field and pay

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Michael Harris on January 13, 2009 at 12:19pm

With about one or two minor differences, licensure versus certification if symantics. The only thing that will help get EMS the recognition it deserves, and us more readily recognized as allied health professionals is better education. We need to demand better education, such as MANDATING A.S. or A.A.S. degrees for Paramedics. When we are finally able to say we have been taught and educated, maybe we will stop being shunned as those trained (or untrained) ambulance drivers, or my favorite when it comes to the NLN, UAP (Unlicensed Assistive Personell).

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Permalink Reply by Skip Kirkwood on January 13, 2009 at 5:18pm

Mr. Harris makes a great point. Legally, we are all already licensed (we have a paper from the government that says that we can practice a trade, occupation, or profession). For a great explanation of this whole subject, go to the National Registry web site at this link: http://www.nremt.org/nremt/about/Legal_Opinion.asp

I've been involved in this discussion for a long time. Here's the bald truth.

1. Until we have solid educational requirements (legitimate college degrees required before licensure) we will not be respected as professionals.

2. Until we have members who read, write, spell, and communicate effectively, we will not be respected as professionals.

3. Until we develop a discrete body of knowledge supported by research (not just clinical, but operational, in the HR area, etc.), and that research is done by EMS personnel, we will not be respected as professionals.

4. As long as we fight, at every turn, efforts to advance EMS through increased educational requirements, increased competencies, increased proof of the value we provide to our communities, we will not be respected as professionals.

5. Until we stop presenting ourselves in our communities in t-shirts bearing off-color EMS jokes and cartoons, unkempt, with cigarettes hanging out of our mouth, we will not be respected as professionals.

6. Until we change our EMS systems so that they do more than just drop people off at the hospital, we will not be respected as professionals.

In short, it doesn't matter what it says on the card in your pocket. Our level of respect, and our public image, is OUR responsibility, to improve or destroy as we see fit.

Skip

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Permalink Reply by steve price on January 13, 2009 at 9:25pm

and as long as our communities decide to allow monopolies and the unions that represent these companies do not follow through on a strike vote and cave in to management then we will not be respected

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Permalink Reply by Mark Torrence on January 14, 2009 at 9:54am

As I have said many times. We are in many ways where nursing was 30 years ago. Fortunately for us here in Oregon at least we have had a few forward thinking individuals in positions of power that have had the ability to get some of the things Skip mentioned pushed through. As Skip must know since he worked in this state for a time currently one has to possess at least an associates degree to be a Paramedic here. Unfortunately it will cost us to gain. 20 years ago when I was certified it cost me $2000 to get there. Now it costs $12,000 to $14,000 for that same cert. It will take time for the improvements to have the desired effect.

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Permalink Reply by jimm murray on January 14, 2009 at 1:41pm

Skip Kirkwood said:

Mr. Harris makes a great point. Legally, we are all already licensed (we have a paper from the government that says that we can practice a trade, occupation, or profession). For a great explanation of this whole subject, go to the National Registry web site at this link: http://www.nremt.org/nremt/about/Legal_Opinion.asp

I've been involved in this discussion for a long time. Here's the bald truth.

1. Until we have solid educational requirements (legitimate college degrees required before licensure) we will not be respected as professionals.

2. Until we have members who read, write, spell, and communicate effectively, we will not be respected as professionals.

3. Until we develop a discrete body of knowledge supported by research (not just clinical, but operational, in the HR area, etc.), and that research is done by EMS personnel, we will not be respected as professionals.

4. As long as we fight, at every turn, efforts to advance EMS through increased educational requirements, increased competencies, increased proof of the value we provide to our communities, we will not be respected as professionals.

5. Until we stop presenting ourselves in our communities in t-shirts bearing off-color EMS jokes and cartoons, unkempt, with cigarettes hanging out of our mouth, we will not be respected as professionals.

6. Until we change our EMS systems so that they do more than just drop people off at the hospital, we will not be respected as professionals.

In short, it doesn't matter what it says on the card in your pocket. Our level of respect, and our public image, is OUR responsibility, to improve or destroy as we see fit.

Skip

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Permalink Reply by jimm murray on January 14, 2009 at 1:45pm

Skip makes critically important observations on this topic. Paramedic is perhaps the last health profession that does NOT require graduation from an accredited education program at the present time.

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Permalink Reply by Jesse Testerman on January 20, 2009 at 1:29pm

The state of Alabama proceeded with wanting to make all the paramedics go through a 2 year associate degree program. In an effort, I assume to give them the respect and better pay they deserve. Great idea but it backfired somewhat. A lot of the future paramedics got to thinking and came up with the idea that a 2 year RN license and working in a dry warm hospital might be better for them. As for the better pay, I have worked in several different places and have found that your pay like it or not, is dictated by the insurance company's and how much your company is reimburses for the ambulance transports. I can bet that the insurance company's are not about to pay a penny more than the have to. I would have to completely agree with Mr. Kirkwood his answer is on the money. WE have to improve ourselves through several different means to improve as a whole, at least we are not still on the same level as Johnny and Roy. Don't got me wrong they are still my heroes.

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Permalink Reply by Don Siemsen on January 28, 2009 at 7:01pm

Mr. Harris, are you saying that everyone who is a medic should have an A.S. or A.S.S. ? I am to old to go back to college full time to get a A.S. in Emergancy Medicine that I have been practicing for 20 years without an A.S. So what happens to those of us? Is someone with an A.S. a better medic than myself just because of the degree? I went to U of Iowa and I think that I am educated. I have seen alot of changes since 84' and more are needed but please do not consider us "old medics" as un-educated. Thanks!

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Permalink Reply by Michael Harris on January 30, 2009 at 5:44am

Maybe that came across sounding a little condescending. Not all non-degree Paramedics are un-educated, just as some degree holding Paramedics are barely trained. In order to advance us as a profession, we need to look to better ourselves. The best way to do so is to become degree holding members of the health care profession. Jim Murray points out,

"Paramedic is perhaps the last health profession that does NOT require graduation from an accredited education program..."

Another concern that needs to be addressed is the fact that many of our Paramedic programs are not even accredited. Even NREMT will stop allowing people to test out unless they are graduates of an accredited program.

"On November 13-14, 2007, the National Registry of EMTs Board of Directors voted to require that applicants for national Paramedic certification graduate from a nationally accredited educational program after December 31, 2012."
~http://www.dhhs.ne.gov/ems/NREMTCommunique.pdf

Unfortunately we do need to do this to propel us forward as a profession, but it may not be easy/feasible for all.

Just my $0.02

ps - i don't have a degree, i graduated in 1996 from a 12 month program. i am looking to finish my degree however, only short 11 credits